PFFR is a suitable conservative real estate exposure via low-leverage REIT preferreds/bonds that offer stable income despite rising rates.

I do have one final question on your REIT fund uh PFFR. Uh mainly because I'm curious as to what you're seeing in the REIT space right now. You know, there's a lot of uh doom and gloom out there in commercial real estate and are you guys more uh focused on commercial or residential? And how do how does that fund operate?

It's an index fund, so it's very well diversified among sectors. There's a maximum sector exposure 25%. Um, here's a good example where I wouldn't necessarily love buying REIT equities right now with rates going higher.

They're generally getting annihilated, but you can not like the equity and love the preferreds and bonds, you know, because with the preferred and bonds, you're getting paid no matter what.

Like rates can go to six and that rates are underlevered ass real estate rather. So a building might be 70% levered, but REITs are usually 40. So they're phenomenal credits. We made most of our capital buying REIT preferred in09.

So we launched the fund. It's outperformed PFF, which is the big index fund. Um, no leverage. So if you want a conservative bet on real estate, good place to be. And you don't get the volatility like I'm sure I don't have my screen up but like REITs I'm sure are getting slaughtered today because they're interest rate sensitive equities.

Yeah, they're mostly all red but you know preferred might be down like five cents or something and it doesn't re with preferred and bonds it doesn't really matter that they're down mark because they're not going to default because they're really low leverage.