这将是不稳定的,因为存在一段漫长的不确定期。我如何做出经济决策?我如何做出投资决策?如果我是公司,我如何决定是否投资?如果我是消费者,我买汽车还是房子,还是买黄金和白银?你知道,将存在这种不确定的风险和不确定性,这限制了经济增长,一切都诉诸法庭,你将经历一段持续的经济停滞、通胀压力和更大风险与不确定性的时期。
It'll be destabilizing because there's this extended period of uncertainty. How do I make economic decisions? How do I make investment decisions? If I'm a corporation, how do I make decisions as to whether or not to invest? If I'm a consumer, do I buy a car or a house or do I buy gold and silver? You know, there's going to be this unsettled degree of risk and uncertainty and and that limits economic growth and everything winds up in the courts and you have a a a continued period of time of stagnant growth, inflationary pressures and greater risks and uncertainties.
铜和黄金曾一度具有非常紧密的相关性。这种相关性在夏初有所破裂,当时黄金停滞不前,而铜独自上涨。我想知道黄金是否真的是黄金,而白银在某种程度上只是在追赶。当然,我要再次强调,黄金和白银在同一天开始上涨。
所以,并不是一个先开始上涨,另一个后涨。因此,是宏观事件推动了两者上涨。但我想说的是,铜今年夏天一直是热门金属,实际上全年都是。投资者纷纷涌向铜。我想请你评论一下目前铜的供需特点,以及最终它是否与黄金有关。
copper and gold had at some point shared a very close correlation. That correlation somewhat broke down earlier in the summer when gold stagnated and copper started running up on its own. I wonder if gold is really gold and silver um to an extent is just playing catchup now. And of course, it's it's I'll stress one more time that gold and silver started moving up in the same day. So, it wasn't like one started moving up, you know, before the other. Um, so there were macro events that pushed both up. But the point I'm trying to make is, um, copper has been the hot metal this summer, all year really. Uh, investors are flocking to copper. And, um, I'd like you to comment on the supply demand, uh, characteristics of copper right now and ultimately whether or not it's related to gold.
我们更新了铜供需和价格的10年预测。我们在7月份完成了那份报告。今天早上卡洛斯告诉我,他正在重新审视,考虑修改。长期来看,我们看好铜价和铜的供需基本面。然而,我认为铜价已经超前了。
过去六到八周你所看到的实际上是投机性购买,部分基于AI数据中心的问题,这又回到了选举上,因为你看到对数据中心的反对声增加,不仅在美国,而且在全球范围内,对于建造所有这些设施是否明智,以及它们在用水、资本、电力、金融可用性以及股票和债务市场资产方面的成本,都存在一个大问号。
共和党人现在开始意识到AI数据中心对他们不利。你看到他们推出各种广告,说这些数据中心为这个州创造了十亿美元的收入等等,试图证明并说服人们不应该对数据中心持负面态度。所以,我认为如果你看到民主党在选举中真正占据上风,你可能会看到铜价大幅抛售,因为投机者会说:“哦,这对数据中心不利,因此对用于这些数据中心和为其供电的电力系统的电子元件中的铜使用不利。”
We updated our our 10-year projections of copper supply, demand, and price. Uh, and we finished that report like in July. Uh, and Carlos informed me this morning that he's going through it again to see about changing it. Um, longer term, we like copper prices and and copper supply demand fundamentals. However, I think that the copper price has gotten ahead of itself. And what you saw over the last six or eight weeks really has been uh speculative buying based in part on the whole issue of AI data centers and that then kicks back to the election because you've seen increased opposition to data centers not just in the United States but on a worldwide basis and there's a big question as to the verac the wisdom of having all of these things built as well as their their costs in terms of water and capital and electricity and financial availability and assets in the equity and debt market. And the Republicans now are starting to realize that AI data centers are a negative for them. You're seeing them roll out all sorts of advertisements. Oh, these data centers are generating a billion dollars of of of revenue for this state and and things like that. Trying to justify and and convince people that they should not be negative on data centers. So, I think that if you saw the Democrats really gain up the upper hand in the elections that you could see a significant selloff in copper prices as speculators say, "Oh, this is bad for data centers and therefore it's bad for copper use in the electronic componentry that goes into those data centers and the power systems to power them."
现在很难说铜的基本价值是多少,因为价格远高于平均生产成本。你真正需要关注的是对未来生产、未来供需平衡的预期,因为这才是价格运行的依据。但你知道,就像你刚才展示的图表一样,如果你看一下,铜价在8周内大幅上涨的经济理由是什么?
这一定是投资投机需求。没有足够的基本面变化来证明这种短期价格飙升的合理性。我不是说价格会回到一两年前的水平,但我是说,过去八周可能主要是由投机和短期投资计划驱动的。
It's hard to say what the fundamental value of copper is right now because the price is so much higher than the average cost of production. And what you really have to look at is the the anticipation of future production, future supply, demand balances because that's really what the price is running on. But you know just as you know going back to your chart that you showed uh a second ago if you look at it you know what's the economic justification for that significant of an increase in copper prices over an 8week period of time. It has to be investment speculative speculative demand. there haven't been there haven't been enough fundamental changes uh to to justify that shortterm spike higher in prices. I'm not saying that prices go back to where they were a year ago or two years ago. Uh but I'm saying that the last eight weeks probably have been driven primarily by speculative and short-term investment plans.
顺便问一下,同样的论点能否应用于黄金和白银?在过去的不是八周,而是三周里,这次上涨是由投机和投资需求驱动的吗?是的,绝对如此。所以,黄金和白银的基本面自7月中旬以来并没有真正改变多少,你会这么说吗?
是的,我的意思是,我们本周也在研究黄金和白银的10年预测,我实际上很担心,因为正如我所说,如果你看看我们三个月前对包括黄金和白银投资需求在内的基本面的预测,然后你与世界各地的实物黄金和白银市场人士交谈,他们看到投资者购买的金属比我们预期的少,出售的金属比我们预期的多。
因此,黄金和白银的基本面可能比包括CPM集团在内的所有人几周前预期的要弱。
By the way, can that same argument be applied to gold and silver in the last uh not eight weeks but the last three weeks was this rally driven by speculative and investment demand whereas the Yeah, absolutely. So the fundamentals for gold and silver haven't really changed that much since maybe mid July, would you say? I'm yeah I mean we're we're looking at our 10-year projections for gold and silver this week as well and and um I'm actually concerned because of as I said you know if you look at where we were projecting for fundamentals including investment demand for gold and silver even three months ago um and you talk to people in the physical gold and silver markets worldwide They're seeing investors buy less metal than we had anticipated and sell more metal than we had anticipated. So the gold and silver fundamentals may be weaker than everybody including CPM Group had been expecting just a few weeks ago.